|
|
Post by roguebiologist on Sept 27, 2013 22:52:25 GMT -8
Following UPG I almost invariably go search the literature to try and look for other precedents and get context. Yes, I apply the scientific method to religion... but to be fair that's actually an integral part of my faith. I work with a Daeva whose name does not appear anywhere in the literature, but he's strongly steered me towards being scholarly. Even if I do not worship as is done in the past, I'm expected to fully justify why I don't and cite examples to support my argument. I've wound up stupidly well educated about a lot of other traditions, but very little of it is directly relevant to my own practice, it's quite strange really. On the other hand, the amount of times when UPG and archeology line up has been startling - I wonder if I'll not eventually find my practices aren't dissimilar to those in the past after all? I'm totally curious now, as to who the Daeva is? Perks ears. *makes a face* The name I've got for him is Makani but considering that just means 'place' in Arabic and he's claimed the city I live in as his current stomping ground, this isn't extremely helpful. ("I'm the Daeva that lives here!"). He has described himself as the 'Unraveller of Knots' and 'Truth that Destroys the Lie', which are titles that seem rahter like job descriptions. I'm still doing research into the full implications of this to be perfectly honest, as the term Daeva in Zoroastrianism is synonymous with demons and lies, and it's quite explicit in the Denkard that lies strengthen the power of the Daeva... although what he does puts a very different spin onto why. That said, the term Deva in the Vedic (Hindu) and Buddhist religions tend to imply rather more benevolence and a state of ascension. So remember how I said I research everything following UPG? Prime example right here. >.> |
|
|
|
Post by lyradora on Sept 28, 2013 9:36:41 GMT -8
imbrium: could you clarify what you mean by "Ares and dragons"? Sounds interesting! 
|
|
|
|
Post by liadine on Sept 29, 2013 5:31:18 GMT -8
Academia to me is the starting point. That is what orients me towards the Gods, while UPG fills in the nitty gritty details--like Hester said, it gives the flavor. Looking at historical/archaeological/mythological resources gives me an idea of how to do a ritual, but it's the UPG that tells me if the Gods were pleased or not with it. This is how I go about things too. I've also noticed that different deities/pantheons have different requirements about how I approach ritual/practice/worship in the first place. My worship of Brighid, f'ex, is a lot more UPG-influenced than my worship of Persephone. Light years worth of difference, in fact, although I imagine recons would still recoil a little at what I do for Persephone. |
|
|
|
Post by moonwolf23 on Sept 29, 2013 12:03:50 GMT -8
I'm totally curious now, as to who the Daeva is? Perks ears. *makes a face* The name I've got for him is Makani but considering that just means 'place' in Arabic and he's claimed the city I live in as his current stomping ground, this isn't extremely helpful. ("I'm the Daeva that lives here!"). He has described himself as the 'Unraveller of Knots' and 'Truth that Destroys the Lie', which are titles that seem rahter like job descriptions. I'm still doing research into the full implications of this to be perfectly honest, as the term Daeva in Zoroastrianism is synonymous with demons and lies, and it's quite explicit in the Denkard that lies strengthen the power of the Daeva... although what he does puts a very different spin onto why. That said, the term Deva in the Vedic (Hindu) and Buddhist religions tend to imply rather more benevolence and a state of ascension. So remember how I said I research everything following UPG? Prime example right here. >.> I thought Daeva originally meant spirit? Huh, mind you that came from many years ago in Paganism, so the scholarship may be bad. Totally interesting none the less lol |
|
|
|
Post by roguebiologist on Sept 29, 2013 23:37:09 GMT -8
*makes a face* The name I've got for him is Makani but considering that just means 'place' in Arabic and he's claimed the city I live in as his current stomping ground, this isn't extremely helpful. ("I'm the Daeva that lives here!"). He has described himself as the 'Unraveller of Knots' and 'Truth that Destroys the Lie', which are titles that seem rahter like job descriptions. I'm still doing research into the full implications of this to be perfectly honest, as the term Daeva in Zoroastrianism is synonymous with demons and lies, and it's quite explicit in the Denkard that lies strengthen the power of the Daeva... although what he does puts a very different spin onto why. That said, the term Deva in the Vedic (Hindu) and Buddhist religions tend to imply rather more benevolence and a state of ascension. So remember how I said I research everything following UPG? Prime example right here. >.> I thought Daeva originally meant spirit? Huh, mind you that came from many years ago in Paganism, so the scholarship may be bad. Totally interesting none the less lol Oh, it's a really interesting word to follow, actually! Daeva originally meant foreign gods in the Gathas (oldest Zoroastrian texts) but then came to mean demon in the Avestas. The same word (Deva) came to mean benevolent gods in Sanskrit used by the Vedic (Hindu) religion, whereas they took the the term Ahura, which referred to the benevolent gods/angels in Avestan, to refers to demons. Considering that Zoroaster specifically bad-mouthed the Vedic religion in the Gathas, I suspect they picked half a pantheon each and decided the other half were the demons, although this is speculation - I've not read the Rg Veda or other Vedas yet. And it gets even more complicated when you consider that the linguistic shift means that daiva means 'god' in Lithuanian owing to linguistic shift, and you get 'daimon' for spirit in Greek, and Devas for immortals but not gods in Buddhism. In short, the one Proto-Indo-European root word got around and ended up with a lot of different meanings!  |
|
|
|
Post by imbrium on Oct 6, 2013 19:31:06 GMT -8
imbrium: could you clarify what you mean by "Ares and dragons"? Sounds interesting! At the risk of sounding just as uninformed as I actually was, I had no idea that there are so many instances in myth of Ares creating dragons (drakons, technically, large venomous snakes) before this happened. I felt one evening after significant and unpleasant goings on that something very, very sacred had been granted to me to keep me safe. I eventually put enough pieces together to realize that they were small dragons. Several years later I was told that 'their Father sent them' I'm kind of a slow learner, so putting it all together took a while. It was only in the last year that I discovered (thanks Pete!) the connection between Ares and dragons. It's been a ride. |
|
|
|
Post by moonwolf23 on Oct 7, 2013 2:04:32 GMT -8
imbrium: could you clarify what you mean by "Ares and dragons"? Sounds interesting! At the risk of sounding just as uninformed as I actually was, I had no idea that there are so many instances in myth of Ares creating dragons (drakons, technically, large venomous snakes) before this happened. I felt one evening after significant and unpleasant goings on that something very, very sacred had been granted to me to keep me safe. I eventually put enough pieces together to realize that they were small dragons. Several years later I was told that 'their Father sent them' I'm kind of a slow learner, so putting it all together took a while. It was only in the last year that I discovered (thanks Pete!) the connection between Ares and dragons. It's been a ride. This sounds like the start of a UPG post. bounces, please write it, I'd totally read. |
|
|
|
Post by nymphaea on Oct 14, 2013 19:19:46 GMT -8
I also find that a blend of academia with UPG tends to be the way to go. Academia and primary sources give us great building blocks, but since our knowledge is fragmented at best and the world has changed so much, UPG fills in the gaps, as well as deepening our personal relationships with Them.
|
|
|
|
Post by anfiasaloch on Nov 8, 2013 12:43:13 GMT -8
Academia is first and foremost for me, however, UPG is the personal experience of what I am doing and helps develop relationships with the gods and spirits. I take this stance, because not everyone who follows a religion is going to delve in it mystically and try to develop personal relationships with gods, and I think that's okay, but scholarship can create a proper base and way of life that is directly inspired by the lost and long-held practices of our ancestors (who are just as important as the gods, imo). I am a reconstructionist, but I don't feel like I do much in reconstruction, its more adoption and back-engineering. I always get irked when people say they don't like reconstructionism, because of fragmentary information and the fact that we live in the modern world. One, as a Gaelic Polytheist, there is living culture in the Gaelic countries that exists in the modern world (a cultural continuum, not something lost that doesn't belong in the modern world). I am a modern Gaelic Polytheist, I practice the living traditions of my ancestors and find inspiration in ancient sources to guide my knowledge of the gods and the values of our ancestors and revive appropriate practices that have faded away. But I am generally conservative in my approach, I think its pious and respectful to our ancestors to uphold their traditions with reverence. I have a rich and rewarding way of life, and I have my ancestors to thank for passing down and/or recording their wisdom and practices for us so that we may benefit from the cultural and spiritual knowledge they attained from experiences with the land and the Otherworld that animates it. UPG is how we create new traditions, though generally this is kept as private practice, as the gods and spirits choose who they wish to impart knowledge to, some things others must find out on their own.
Really, though, I wish we could just throw out the UPG term. I would think it should be obvious that if you are going to share information about the gods and ancestors, you should make the distinction between inspired and researched knowledge. Your UPG could be wrong and there is a possibility you could only misguide those who can't tell the difference, which is just inconsiderate..
|
|
