Belief vs Practice

Erin Said"Thanks. Many folks from out your way have made that same suggestion but politically it does not fly for us euro Americans to go mucking about in natives trads. I do find interesting parallels between the traditions of Indians and Irish though, through Indians writing about cultural concepts, like Gregory Cajete's books. They help me to perceive better the nature of traditional culture in general, which I appreciate."

Youre welcome What sort of trads would you say we have in common? Theres an affinity there with the choctaw because they gave us money and food during the famine after the trail of tears, we have them here for state occasions and youth camps, and they have us there for similar stuff but Ive never had a look at the cultures really. Its mad looking back at it and how the poorest people managed to give the most.

Cool vid about it... it gets a bit cringeworthy at the end. Congratulating each other on their trads is a bit much.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2PTvPpaPE

Erin "And really, nobody is American by blood, it is by birth and citizenship. The cultural trads here are varied depending on region. Brisket is southern so not relevant to me in the Pacific northwest, and this being the latest part of the continental US to be established, we haven't had much time to establish cultural distinction unless you count coffee and environmentalism. So yes, our ancestral heritage can be either ignored or take on heightened significance. But the latter is hardly odd...I can talk about my grandparents with my kids and my folks talk about theirs...it is very much part of living memory, and I love family connections and my old family photo collection."

I really need to use a spell checker in posts, I meant while youre american youre also irish or italian by blood. Its that concept of blood relation as it relates to identity thats unique and shows how 'ancestors' are a modern and abstract concept. Something outside living memory and culture. When you look at the figures for ancestry in the US its obvious. Theres 7 times more people in the us claiming to have irish ancestors than there are people alive in ireland today from all backgrounds. Only a small portion of the population went to the us, even if they ate fertility drugs for breakfast their whole lives it wouldnt be possible. Its a cultural concept a part of a unique identity, to those people Ireland is like africa for african americans. The motherland, the old country.

Eh Yeah tho coffee is a pretty big contribution. Thats how americanization spreads now, people get dissafected at its influence and meet in the old bombed out coffee shop to rebel against it. Then, very slowly, america gradually builds a starbucks around them. And they all get addicted to latte, and become americans haha. We drink tea here not coffee but Im a post starbucks americanized irish person, I liked starbucks before it was cool. Now I wouldnt touch that crass crap, I like REAL coffee made in a mocha maker... that I bought for my home... dun dan daaaaan. Awesome!, have a nice day

Erin Said: "So naturally living without easy access to heritage traditions feels like a lack to some of us and we make connections as best we can. It is the nature of dispersed peoples I think. We might also stress ancestors because the native peoples here do so. But trad cultures also stress tribal or clannic connections through relatives both living and dead so there is a tangible connection which legitimizes ones belonging. Its not new. This is just how it looks in a diasporic situation outside of the trad community. Inside the community in the native homeland such markers aren't needed. "

Thats a possibility alright. Itd be bizzare if there wasnt cross over with the indian stuff. No matter how you segregate society theres always cross over, even when the berlin wall was up trends werent stopped by physical and social boundries.

Though the living or dead thing granted but only within living memory. Even in brehon law if you wanted to be a king you had to be related to one within the last 5 generations, living memory.
Fintan mac bochra and tuan mac cairell legitimise the book of invasions by magically surviving to see it all and tell people before they died. Living memory. Or even dead memory when a saint calls either fergus or cu chulainn to life to legitimise the tain. They dont say this is ancestral tradition, they dont have the concept of living outside ritualised time, they dont have trad/modernity like we do where we can see things from the outside. Its always in the cultural idiom. The ritual meaning.

I would say tho that all cultures exchange meaning for things like social status before they exchange money or trade goods and my heraldry tattoo is an example of that (also romanization before invasion and americanization before modernization). I shouldnt have a concept of clan as it relates to identity through blood relation its an american thing, only a handfull of scottish people care about a system from centuries ago and theyre probably an elite landed gentry if they do. Thats the social role it plays now. And it has never had any role in irish culture in any period in history and I know that ...BUT I still have a heraldry tattoo because of it.

The meaning transferred to me while exchanging ideas about identity with americans. I traded on my irishness because it could give me status in their culture in return I adopted that status and flaunted it in their cultural idiom. The metal thing seemed not to accord me the same status tbh. I didnt think about it that way when I was getting it though. It was all naturally a part of the discource between modernity and tradition that goes on constantly now. But in getting the heraldry tattoo I connected to a concept of identity that doesnt mean much here using a commodified symbol of heritage. A real consumerist and capitalist thing to do, nothing my culture would value but id gotten that meaning from americans and it meant something to me as an individual even if its got no communal meaning.