rhyd
New Member
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/asenseofplace/2013/11/worlding-the-earth/
Posts: 5
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Post by rhyd on Nov 28, 2013 16:22:23 GMT -8
Hey folks,
As I mentioned in my intro, one of the areas which interests me greatly is that of "madness" and all its related forms when it comes to Polytheistic practice. From what I've read and heard amongst many, one of the more difficult things to confront when you start hearing/experiencing/seeing the gods is the concern that one might be going insane--something I've been calling "Divine Trauma."
What makes this more difficult, I find, is the implicit (and often explicit) accusation amongst others of the umbrella of Paganism that indeed we are. Such accusations range from minor and polite suggestions that we don't attempt to do any real discernment to find out whether or not the gods are "just in our head" (as Alison Leigh Lily recently stated in a Druidry thread to myself, John Beckett, and Julian Betkowski), to the psychological and historical diagnoses of our "delusion" by folks like John Halstead, to the all-out, juvenile accusations of the facebook folks who attacked Gallina Krasskova.
Re-stoking that battle isn't worth most of our times, except that, for those of us specifically attempting to speak to and within the Pagan community (for all its faults, I still use that label), we'll continue to encounter these accusations.
Having already confronted my own fear of "Madness" (it's not so scary after all...), it appears to be a potential barrier for those experiencing the gods, especially people new to this. What can we do? I've personally decided to begin "calling out" such accusations in public forums (on behalf of my gods, myself, and others), but beyond that, I've got no idea. It seems like this community would be a good place to talk about this.
Thoughts? Ideas?
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Post by James Grimswolf on Nov 30, 2013 18:40:45 GMT -8
I would advocate support for those going through the discernment process as the focus for energy to be put towards, rather than calling out people who make accusations.
Ultimately we can't empirically prove that any of us have had any of these experiences, such is the nature of faith. That being so there will always be people who will prefer to believe that those hearing the voices of the divine directly are in fact mad, with no means to persuade them otherwise. You might offer them a gentle nudge in the hopes that they may open up to a new way of thinking, but any more than that is just asking for a flame war or worse.
Side note that I feel is important to share: The idea that those that hear the voice of a God directly must be mentally ill is unfortunately common even outside of modern Polytheism. One of my mother's (from whom you might argue I inherited my bent for the mystic from)major disagreement with the Church she was a member of was the idea that priests who are approached by parishioners who claim to have heard the voice of God directly calling to them would often start by suggesting the parishioner get mental help, assuming first mental illness before supposing that an actual vision might be possible.
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Post by spookymuffin on Nov 30, 2013 20:55:50 GMT -8
I agree that calling out people who make accusations would not be a very productive use of energy. Discernment is a very necessary practice to cultivate though I also think that the impact of supposedly divine voices should also be examined. If a person becomes better - more adjusted, better able to roll with life's punches, better able to adapt to changes, more responsible, and so forth - as a result of this communication, then it might be reasonable to conclude that they're communicating with the Gods *and* that they have the emotional maturity to handle that communication. If this communication appears to cause this person's life to fall apart, if they're unable to maintain reasonable relationships with other people, if they can't keep their responsibilities together, etc. then it might be helpful to question the veracity of their divine communication.
While it's certainly true that divine communication can initiate a period of intense instability in a person's life, I feel that divine communication should ultimately improve a person. It would figure that the Gods would want to speak to a person who was capable of putting their directions into practice; that simply can't happen if you're surrounded by psychological and emotional landmines. (And yes, I realize that mad saints and wandering mystics exist but they're not who I'm talking about right now.)
It bears remembering that a person with mental illness who believes (rightly or wrongly) that they are speaking to divine beings is going to have a whole mess of additional symptoms as well. I think that's what bugs me the most about total strangers telling each other that so-n-so is crazy *just because* that person claims to speak with the Gods. In genuine cases of mental illness there are going to be a whole list of other problems that a person will experience.
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rhyd
New Member
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/asenseofplace/2013/11/worlding-the-earth/
Posts: 5
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Post by rhyd on Dec 1, 2013 8:48:49 GMT -8
"It bears remembering that a person with mental illness who believes (rightly or wrongly) that they are speaking to divine beings is going to have a whole mess of additional symptoms as well."
Oh, so very true! I was a social worker for extremely mentally-ill homeless folk, and yes, the claims of divine interactions tend to be the least of the difficulties they experience. Come to think of it, I heard more about the "atheist who watches in the walls" or "the voice in the television" than gods or faeries.
Calling out people is probably a distraction, though I still think there's great irresponsibility in their public positions. How do we build support for the discernment process? I started out assuming the gods were mere archetypes and figurative representations of my inner self until being exposed to enough people who'd allowed themselves to consider it otherwise so that I began to allow myself to consider this, too (and then the whole world seemed to open up!) How do we counterbalance that pressure from very vocal Jungians (etc.) without starting a flame war?
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Post by spookymuffin on Dec 1, 2013 9:55:49 GMT -8
There probably isn't a quick or easy answer to how we can build support for the discernment process. Many of the polytheists I've been had contact with over the years (Norse recon primarily) don't exactly have a concept of discernment as a spiritual discipline; this was certainly evident in many of voices that dominated online discussions at the time I dropped out of the community several years ago. I think that the ignorance of discernment is based in the assumption that the gods and spirits don't really talk to anyone. I think a fundamental cultural shift is necessary in order to acknowledge that divine interaction can and does take place and that not everyone who experiences it is sufficiently prepared to cope successfully with it. Perhaps a place to start is to clarify exactly what we mean by discernment and why it is an important discipline for any spiritually-minded person to cultivate. From there it might be possible to identify the fundamental practices of discernment and form a simple method for applying those practices. (Something a little more helpful than "just put a yes pebble and a no pebble in a bag and pull one out".) As for counterbalancing the Jungians? Hmm. Let me think on that one for a bit.  |
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